Science on Social Media: How to Enter the Arena?

00:00:00: Diabetes Insights, Breakthroughs and Innovators.

00:00:04: The EASD TV podcast

00:00:07: from the

00:00:07: annual meeting of the European Association for the Study of Diabetes.

00:00:13: Hello!

00:00:13: And welcome back to EASdTV.

00:00:15: Now we live in an age when social media rules narratives across the world where a lie can be right across-the-world In the mere twinkling And that's an issue when the lie may be about health and maybe really very harmful.

00:00:35: But there has always been a debate whether it is better for doctors or clinicians to engage on social media, all to ignore it?

00:00:45: There will also be a debate on Friday from the people who are here with me.

00:00:52: Welcome Partha!

00:00:53: Partha is a clinical director at NHS England.

00:00:58: He's also a diabetologist in Portsmouth, which is my home city.

00:01:02: And you have very active social media presence.

00:01:08: so why did you decide to engage?

00:01:12: I think there are many reasons for me doing social media and the first thing is defining what is social media.

00:01:18: people see it as Twitter or X. I don't think it's just that.

00:01:22: And Facebook, LinkedIn... All of them are social media and they've all got different platforms.

00:01:27: The reason why i got involved in it is two or three main reasons.

00:01:30: It can be a good place to learn yourself.

00:01:34: So my career learning more about the lived experience has come from Social Media seeing people with type one diabetes or type-two diabetes saying look these are my challenges These issues.

00:01:44: having conversation really helpful I think the other thing you can do is, you can dispel misinformation and myth as a specialist.

00:01:52: You could turn up and say... And I appreciate we're in world where everything's under debate but it does give me that platform unless be forget also creates helps create really good narrative around what working?

00:02:03: What not working on would seem more honest with people for want of better word.

00:02:07: we are serving in the NHS so I find it to be a great experience.

00:02:11: All the social media platforms and their audiences are different, that's important remember but i have found in spite of all its downsides is really useful tool for my clinical practice as well as policy role

00:02:23: And point about learning is an important one.

00:02:28: I was talking with doctors who do dermatology ridiculous, you know like seventeen million followers for Dr Pimpel.

00:02:40: But one of them had actually produced a paper out the information sent back to him by people on the platform who all have experience with quite rare skin disorder and had found that a particular treatment didn't work for them.

00:02:59: And it had rewritten the textbooks, so there's lot of information to be had.

00:03:04: It certainly shouldn't be viewed social media as way to proselytise or... or just pass information one way?

00:03:12: Absolutely.

00:03:13: I think, as I said it depends on how you use it and we also need to learn the skills of moving away from conversations which you find quite difficult or doesn't match your value so-to speak.

00:03:24: So depending what space do want create if its very much an educational space You can definitely do like a dermatology example.

00:03:30: A good example was during Covid times.

00:03:33: lots people used social media put out right information.

00:03:36: try this, try that Like everything.

00:03:40: Everything has got its good side and it's bad side, And for me how you use is a very critical element of the use of social media.

00:03:49: Okay let us talk about negative sides.

00:03:51: So when to walk away from an argument?

00:03:54: I guess with people that are never going to win an argument How do we decide on this?

00:04:00: When will they

00:04:01: do so?

00:04:01: There are certain values I hold true to.

00:04:04: I think if you see somebody being, let's say very clearly misogyny is there or outcry racism as they're... So i see that people are baiting you To get a response from in an official role so They can use it against some of the format.

00:04:19: The best thing to do is walk away From It.

00:04:20: If someone believes for example saying You Are not good enough because Of your skin.

00:04:26: That's a very prevalent view on Twitter at the moment, isn't it?

00:04:29: But you

00:04:29: can change that with discussion about that sort of mentality.

00:04:31: There is no way... And probably this person would not be in position to say face-to-face.

00:04:36: This thing behind an anonymous account.

00:04:39: but I think there are good examples for walking away.

00:04:41: You know what we have done here.

00:04:44: if you cannot have proper conversation let us say health inequalities or why people why are more, not women in positions of power etc.

00:04:52: If you can't have a conversation and the response to that is well because they belong in a kitchen Well I can't debate with somebody Because thats their view And thats their notion.

00:05:01: So your walking away gives you mental peace.

00:05:03: so i think negativity will always be there.

00:05:06: But i want give very recent example where by got lot abuse for saying things about flag etc.

00:05:12: but It's also what people forget is the kind comments that has come since then, right?

00:05:18: There is also that side where people have said this doesn't represent us.

00:05:23: Please ignore them.

00:05:24: you know we value what you do.

00:05:26: so I think society is built up all of that and social media probably is microcosm of that which why i'm not a big believer in walking away?

00:05:34: because you're just conceding space to people with very polarized views while you can stay like your doing society encounter those views.

00:05:43: You and I were chatting about Blue Sky, which a lot of people move to when Twitter became X. But that's become a terrible echo chamber And...I feel quite strongly should stay in some of these contested spaces.

00:05:59: Because otherwise, as you say... You create an information vacuum don't you?

00:06:04: One hundred percent and I think this is where for example LinkedIn has also become very much a people trying to sell their wares rather than actually Information Cascade.

00:06:12: so but when you are there So i inhabit pretty much every platform And I love slightly different messages because of the audience.

00:06:19: But I don't thing walking away's.

00:06:21: if somebody saying For argument sake we don't believe let's say screening in type one diabetes should be done.

00:06:28: To have an adult conversation, why not?

00:06:30: Right?

00:06:31: or is any ASD guideline which has come out this conference about diabetes distress and the challenge?

00:06:38: so what do we do by that distress?

00:06:40: where did people go?

00:06:41: just identify but Good conversation.

00:06:44: A

00:06:44: good conversation, because you could hand out the right information and also... You can help people mobilise.

00:06:51: Now I have to tell you something about Parthakar which is that when he became clinical director for type one diabetes for NHS England i think our item's saying that CGM monitors About three percent of the type-one population had CGMs.

00:07:07: now it's ninety seven per cent.

00:07:09: Is That Right?

00:07:10: Yeah pretty much yes.

00:07:12: And It was really Partha mobilising patients that actually achieved it.

00:07:20: So, if I can characterise like this a third of people are always adopters in the health service and one-third just put their heads down to do what they're told!

00:07:32: A third say'I'm not going to do anything somebody else tells me to but if patients come along saying look here everybody is doing... weren't you?

00:07:40: That makes a huge difference.

00:07:42: I think it shows also the importance of accountability, i think is very important as a national leader in my book.

00:07:48: so i think visibility...i think people don't value the power of visibility right!

00:07:53: So just to give an example if you look at let's say Chantal Matthews the president of ESD she's visible and around

00:08:00: everywhere.

00:08:01: that's important

00:08:01: yes so

00:08:02: important and i believe That doesn't mean you shy away from difficult conversations.

00:08:09: You're saying, for example with the type one population setting expectations is incredibly important and what are trying to do?

00:08:16: So for me social media has been a perfect example of also trying feel the pulse.

00:08:21: What really matters most people.

00:08:23: Is it just about what academics say in their science sessions or more like?

00:08:28: no-no That's absolutely what we would like as a population.

00:08:32: And that is very important.

00:08:33: barometer to sort of sometimes test, and an example socially this morning I have put because the ASD has suggested there should be population wide screening in type one diabetes... ...and i've put it out!

00:08:43: It was interesting..I'm intrigued.

00:08:45: What do you see?

00:08:48: Would you like your children screened?

00:08:51: They're all part of the barometer judgment.

00:08:53: You know, should we look at this as a population level?

00:08:55: Should be do.

00:08:56: it is policy-level and help shape national guidelines.

00:08:59: so I think that's quite important.

00:09:01: So when shouldn't people do social media?

00:09:04: And i'm thinking in particular very often early career academics come to me.

00:09:08: they are worried about Social Media because Well, in some circumstances and it's certainly happening in the US they can effectively be cancelled.

00:09:19: I mean you know They can express a perfectly reasonable view And suddenly find that there being hold in front of their Boards or who are asking them to be sacked?

00:09:31: So That very frightened of that.

00:09:34: so

00:09:34: my advice To those individuals because obviously There is a position of privilege somehow and they can battle off.

00:09:39: You know any complaints I think at the early stage of your career, if you want to use social media for my first advice always is don't go there drunk or angry.

00:09:47: I think that's very important.

00:09:48: Same with Drunk texting Don't

00:09:51: Go There!

00:09:53: Because i think other important thing with it Is Think Of It As You Are In A Public Forum And You're Discussing It Right?

00:10:01: and You Also Need To Be Aware The Politics Around You.

00:10:04: So When You'Re Talking About Certain Subjects be aware of the implication.

00:10:08: what are gonna put out and What Do Your Putting On The Line?

00:10:10: On the other hand, if you're young at an academic and want to know more about what science is doing or engage with individuals who are higher up in the chain of academia.

00:10:19: Perfect for them!

00:10:20: You tweet some papers out... ...you engage people asking questions building a portfolio so that they stick to their lane.

00:10:29: I'm not but what i am saying it's that initial stages do things which make sense as your privilege grows

00:10:37: Of course.

00:10:37: So there's a couple of really good examples of that, so... There is another colleague from the UK which is Kamlesh Kunti who does very good job apart from posting pictures of doses to look delicious!

00:10:50: He also posts recent studies in diabetes and kind-of explains them.

00:10:55: The master of this art is Eric Topol.

00:10:58: Absolutely And Eric Topole has a following over one million or something.

00:11:03: What he does is he very carefully explains the implications of recent research in the biomedical sphere and he aligns it with Substack.

00:11:14: Do you do Substac?

00:11:15: I do, so

00:11:18: should we just explain Substak for people who don't...I

00:11:21: think there's again another forum whereby you can put things

00:11:24: into a written format.

00:11:25: Yeah!

00:11:25: So putting things which is one my talk sessions how to make use social media.

00:11:33: Because if you look at papers, they're quite drab and dreary.

00:11:36: And a lot of people then go oh my god I don't have time to read them.

00:11:39: what's the abstract?

00:11:40: What is that

00:11:40: conclusion?!

00:11:41: Yeah!

00:11:41: What does it mean?

00:11:42: yeah...and i think make it much more simpler for people to understand..I think we also forget their value of teaching.

00:11:49: We are doing this in schools now.

00:11:50: We forgot there were all those same people That not everybody learns the same way.

00:11:54: The visualization models which are very important.

00:11:56: So SUBSTAC will help lots develop into one place.

00:12:00: Another example of that is Daniel Drucker.

00:12:02: Oh, Dan Drucker is terrific.

00:12:03: Brilliant!

00:12:04: And I think to academics it's that you don't have to be out there controversial and challenging every single moral things that doesn't fit in with your fibre so-to speak.

00:12:14: You can be as a camelish and learn from them.

00:12:18: The final bit i always say the people are sometimes not bad thing for want of better word is social media voyeur.

00:12:23: Go There Don't Have To Tweet Anything.

00:12:26: Listen Follow Learn and then gradually dip your toe into It.

00:12:31: Which do you enjoy of all the social media platforms?

00:12:35: So, you know what I think they're all very different.

00:12:37: I'll give you my example.

00:12:38: Facebook is off a very particular generation right.

00:12:41: so yeah it's

00:12:41: an older generation.

00:12:42: and over there What i get is interaction with parents.

00:12:45: Yeah invariable with parents Right?

00:12:47: Twitter Is A Wide World Whereby You Have No Conqueror.

00:12:50: What Is Happening?

00:12:51: Right?

00:12:52: It's a wide

00:12:53: Absolutely.

00:12:54: Instagram Is More The Younger Generation?

00:12:55: Yep

00:12:56: Definitely

00:12:56: And LinkedIn Is Very Much Professional.

00:12:58: Yes So I tend to enjoy

00:13:01: TikTok.

00:13:02: I think TikTok is slightly outside my range because i've been told up very clearly by my children not to venture in there.

00:13:08: Oh dad, don't embarrass us!

00:13:09: Please

00:13:10: don't do things like that...I think they're already embarrassed by some of my posts on Instagram Because They are There and they have steadfastly refused to follow me.

00:13:16: But it's very interesting cause.

00:13:17: TikTok

00:13:19: will be the big twink next time

00:13:21: The younger generation.

00:13:23: So it does require.. I find for TikTok- I Don't Do A Lot Of TikTok.

00:13:28: Well I'll Do Any TikTok but It takes a lot of Time.

00:13:32: You need to constantly post and getting stuff right, making it look nice.

00:13:40: And you're competing with the likes of quality that people do.

00:13:46: amazing productions... Absolutely right!

00:13:50: I think its about audience they are trying to reach.

00:13:52: what is their purpose for being on social media?

00:13:54: For me a lot of it is about information cascade.

00:13:58: It's very important let people know about success & failures in the national space.

00:14:03: And one of the big things that I want to actually leave ESD with a message on, and thats where social media can be very powerful is say science only as good at getting into lives.

00:14:14: otherwise its powerpoint presentation or somebody's CV...and i think conferences should have more implementation science.

00:14:21: That´s very important because for example you take this conference magical data, right?

00:14:28: There's like a newer GLP one and mixed GLP on an oral GLP.

00:14:31: One and screening as this that.

00:14:34: but my first question is so what's the plan to get it into lives?

00:14:37: yeah

00:14:38: Right, because all you're doing otherwise is opening up more and more disparities in different parts of the world.

00:14:42: Yes!

00:14:42: And that's across the other major thing for social media... Absolutely It's global.

00:14:47: it's global I know.

00:14:48: OfferGlipper on the attain study.

00:14:51: No we ought to be thinking here.

00:14:53: a small molecule.

00:14:54: if was reasonably priced We could distribute.

00:14:58: no need for injections ambient temperature

00:15:02: Ticks all boxes.

00:15:03: So that's where social media can be really powerful.

00:15:07: to say, okay this is great here in the UK.

00:15:10: I also do a work in India.

00:15:12: so yeah i always talk with people when they go like why isn't there more people on hybrid closed loops?

00:15:18: and perspective is important too.

00:15:20: I'm working at India trying to get them glucose strips everywhere!

00:15:23: The perspective of an unequal world does tend to give us very good pictures about it as well.

00:15:32: And we had Dr Mohan.

00:15:34: Oh

00:15:34: yes!

00:15:34: So, Dr Mohen gave the first global impact lecture prize and he has a huge social media presence.

00:15:43: He said that over one million and half followers and was tweeting out all sorts of stuff.

00:15:48: Again...he's

00:15:49: very much about science Dr Mohon.

00:15:52: I've known him and respect him Amazing guy doing some great work.

00:15:57: Also don't forget the impact it has on his own research Going coming up and I would like to part of your study.

00:16:03: Yes, exactly.

00:16:04: It's an incredibly powerful tool And you know so i'm.

00:16:07: i believe You will have always a narrative for social media is toxic But you can make it as untoxic As you wish by use Of different buttons.

00:16:15: don't forget the social media runs on algorithms.

00:16:17: If you could switch off The algorithm A few times but ignoring a Few things that algorithm switches.

00:16:22: oh

00:16:22: That's our top tip.

00:16:24: Ignore some posts and your algorithms, right?

00:16:26: If you just go like I don't like this post.

00:16:27: You do it three times.

00:16:28: so let's say there are heavy-duty things around colour of skin people saying rude stuff...

00:16:33: Yeah that is very horrible!

00:16:34: Just

00:16:34: ignore a few tweets then the algorithm switches out.

00:16:38: on the other hand if you're sitting there going oh i would look at these bits Then off course they will feed more and more.

00:16:43: So also need to be careful when YOU are watching.

00:16:46: So

00:16:46: if you've got nothing but cats in your feed It all your fault.

00:16:51: Partha, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.

00:16:54: Always!

00:16:54: You always have great and wise take on life.

00:17:01: but you've made such a difference to people living with diabetes in the UK And I know that because i read what is his feed and patients are so enthusiastic and supportive of him.

00:17:17: So thankyou Thankyou very much.

00:17:19: Thank you for joining

00:17:20: us on the podcast of The European Association For

00:17:23: The Study Of Diabetes.

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